Korbel ranked 12th best place in the world to earn a master’s degree in international relations.
Korbel ranked 20th in the world for the best undergraduate degree in international studies.
Korbel ranked 12th best place in the world to earn a master’s degree in international relations.
Korbel ranked 20th in the world for the best undergraduate degree in international studies.
This reflection was written by Ahmad Saleem (MA, International Security, 2025), one of four students selected to represent the Josef Korbel School of Global and Public Affairs at the 2025 Aspen Security Forum.
From July 15–18, I had the privilege of representing the Josef Korbel School of Global and Public Affairs as part of a student delegation at the 2025 Aspen Security Forum. As the only university partnered with the Forum, Korbel’s presence stood out—we were proud to be the only students attending among a distinguished gathering of world leaders, policymakers, and experts in global security.
The forum was insightful, exposing me to a wide range of opinions on pressing global issues. A recurring theme throughout the event was the growing role of artificial intelligence and cybersecurity in international security. In the session Cracking the Code: AI and National Security, we heard from Tarun Chhabra, Head of National Security at Anthropic and Distinguished Visiting Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and Katrina Mulligan from OpenAI for Government. These speakers, representing both public and private sectors, discussed how AI is poised to transform the security landscape. As an international security student, I was deeply intrigued by these discussions.
Another recurring theme was the future of European defense. A powerful session on this topic featured Baiba Braže, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Latvia. Following the discussion, our Korbel delegation had the privilege of engaging with the Latvian delegation, who kindly invited us to the upcoming Rīga Conference. Korbel also hosted a session at the Forum titled Russia, Ukraine, and Beyond. This session explored the geopolitical and defense implications of the Russia-Ukraine war and featured a remarkable lineup of speakers: Dr. Condoleezza Rice—Korbel alum and former U.S. Secretary of State—Pasi Rajala, Political State Secretary for Finland’s Foreign Ministry, and Halyna Yanchenko, Member of Ukraine’s Parliament and Head of the Investment Taskforce for the Defense Industry. The discussion emphasized the enduring importance of transatlantic partnerships and the need for sustained global support for Ukraine. It was a proud moment when Dr. Condoleezza Rice recognized Dean Fritz Mayer and the Korbel School for organizing the session.
The forum also came at a pivotal moment for Middle Eastern geopolitics. The session titled Israel at a Crossroads featured Amos Yadlin, former Chief of the IDF Intelligence Directorate, and Michael Herzog, former Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. and Tisch Distinguished Fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. They discussed Israel’s evolving strategic posture and described its military doctrine as one of “short, decisive, and limited war.” I appreciated that the forum also provided an alternative narrative through Dr. Vali Nasr’s book talk on Iran's Grand Strategy: A Political History. His presentation offered a deep dive into Iran’s domestic politics and its shifting strategic paradigms. Dr. Nasr argued that, in contrast to Israel’s doctrine, Iran’s strategy is oriented toward long-term, less decisive conflicts. These sessions together provided a comprehensive and nuanced understanding of regional dynamics.
One of the most fascinating sessions for me was Great Power Competition – Global POVs. This panel offered compelling perspectives from the Global South and included speakers such as Hina Rabbani Khar, Former Foreign Minister of Pakistan; Claudia Ruiz Massieu, Former Foreign Minister of Mexico; and Balázs Orbán, Political Director to the Hungarian Prime Minister. It was especially insightful to hear how different regions interpret great power dynamics—and why including these voices is crucial for shaping inclusive global policy.
Outside the formal sessions, I, along with other Korbel students, was invited to informal networking opportunities. These provided a chance to connect with professionals working in tech, defense, and government. As someone who aspires to work in think tanks, especially in Washington, D.C., I was excited to meet individuals from the Atlantic Council, Aspen Institute, Center for a New American Security, and Delphi Global. Many of them were already familiar with the Korbel School and expressed willingness to support me and my fellow students in our career journeys. Beyond these professionals, I also met a Stanford graduate who had recently founded an AI company supporting semiconductor development. These connections helped me not only network professionally but also draw inspiration from fellow academics and innovators.
I returned from Aspen with a new perspective on global security issues and a wealth of connections. I truly felt that this opportunity, along with the Korbel School, provided a bridge between theoretical knowledge and real-world practice. I am deeply grateful to Dean Fritz Mayer, Prof. Naazneen Barma, and the Scrivner Institute of Public Policy for providing this opportunity. Experiences like this are a powerful reminder of how the Korbel School continues to empower students like me to connect academic learning with real-world policy and practice.
Colorado – From August 13–15, 2025, a diverse group of leaders from across Colorado will convene in the San Luis Valley as part of the Colorado Project’s Rural Learning Tour. The Colorado Project is a statewide initiative designed to advance shared prosperity and inclusive, sustainable growth in all regions of Colorado. It is convened by the Josef Korbel School of Global and Public Affairs and the Scrivner Institute of Public Policy at the University of Denver.
Now in its second iteration, the Colorado Project is focusing on the distinctive challenges rural communities face and the innovative, locally driven solutions they are generating. The Rural Learning Tour seeks to elevate this ingenuity, highlighting creative interventions in cost of living, sustainability, economic mobility, and entrepreneurship.
The San Luis Valley convening will spotlight organizations and initiatives in rural healthcare, food systems, affordable housing, and environmental stewardship, among others. There will also be a special focus on youth engagement and workforce readiness. Aaron Miltenberger, one of the co-hosts of this convening and President & CEO of the Boys & Girls Clubs of the San Luis Valley, emphasizes the importance of youth engagement in efforts like this: “Investing in our kids isn’t just the right thing to do—it’s how we build a stronger rural economy. When young people in the San Luis Valley get real skills, strong mentors, and the confidence to lead, they come back as nurses in Alamosa, teachers in Antonito, and business owners in Monte Vista. That’s how we grow—by investing in our own.”
Participants will visit Alamosa, Center, Monte Vista, and Mosca over the three days to tour a food distribution hub, learn about the revitalization of Main Street in Alamosa, meet with agricultural producers leveraging tech solutions for more sustainable production, and hear directly from community leaders from institutions like Adams State University, San Luis Valley Health, and the Boys and Girls Clubs of the San Luis Valley. Colorado Project participant Kurt Walker, a Korbel School alum and Ranch Manager at Pine Canyon Ranch, remarks “The San Luis Valley is proof that when we center equity and innovation, rural places can lead Colorado’s future.”
The San Luis Valley visit follows a successful convening in Sterling in June to better understand the context of northeastern Colorado. Following Alamosa, the Learning Tour will travel to Steamboat Springs and the Yampa Valley (October 8–10), where the conversation will turn to recreation-based economies and conservation finance. Each stop reveals distinct regional strengths, but the tour’s goal is unified: uncovering shared solutions for both rural and statewide prosperity across Colorado.
Over two immersive days in Sterling, Colorado, community leaders from across the state gathered for the inaugural stop on the Colorado Project’s Rural Renaissance Learning Tour. The Colorado Project, convened by the Korbel School and the Scrivner Institute, is a unique statewide effort to advance shared prosperity and sustainable and inclusive growth in every corner of the state. The Sterling convening offered insights into the opportunities and complexities of life in Northeast Colorado.
With a focus on the project's four cornerstones—Colorado’s Promise (access to prosperity in all Colorado communities), sustainability and resilience, economic mobility and workforce, and cost of living—participants engaged in on-the-ground conversations with local business owners, farmers, educators, elected officials, and civic leaders. The convening underscored a clear theme: rural communities hold important innovations for Colorado’s future, but they must be included in the conversations on long-term strategies.
Regional Insights with Statewide Impacts
From touring wind turbine sites that are already creating skilled local jobs, to hearing K-12 and higher ed educators outline new career-connected programs, the convening offered a vivid snapshot of both successes and gaps. Participants examined local labor trends, housing affordability, sustainable energy, and economic infrastructure—all through the firsthand perspectives of those that live and lead in the region.
“Rural prosperity is Colorado’s prosperity--our future depends on every county thriving,” said Laurie Jones, Director at the Small Business Development Center in Sterling. Her words became a refrain across the convening, resonating with both first-time visitors and longtime regional partners.
From Listening to Action
The convening was not just a listening tour; it was a platform to build. Sterling’s collaborative spirit and deep-rooted leadership provided a springboard for actionable ideas: from broadband and tech apprenticeships to renewable energy projects and local entrepreneurship support. This work will help shape the statewide playbook for investing in rural prosperity.
Sterling marked a powerful beginning for the Colorado Project. With the next stop in Alamosa scheduled for August, the Colorado Project continues to elevate community-driven insights into long-term strategies for rural success. It is laying the groundwork for a more inclusive, connected, and resilient Colorado.
1. You two are the current leaders of the Korbel Policy Society, the student organization for MPP students and others interested in policy. Can you share your experience leading KPS, and describe one thing you are particularly proud of implementing with KPS?
This has been a bit of a rough year in terms of student engagement, but we are proud to continue to offer Korbel Policy Society as a space for MPPs and other policy-interested folk at the University of Denver to socialize outside of class, discuss public policy, and make friends across cohorts. We are especially excited for our spring quarter initiative: featuring MPP alumni on the Korbel CareerCast podcast. While we originally planned an in-person alumni panel, we quickly recognized that busy schedules and limited availability in the spring quarter posed a challenge. To ensure our event remained accessible to all while preserving our valuable connection with alumni, we pivoted to a recorded, virtual format. This shift allowed us to continue sharing alumni insights and experiences in a flexible way, making their stories available to a wider audience of students, anytime.
2. What influenced your decision to pursue an MPP at Korbel?
Olivia: I see public policy as the ideal conduit for translating research-informed policy mechanisms into practical public service. In the classroom, we not only discuss the political process and theoretical elements of successful policy, but real-world applications and complications. I fell in love with policy problems in my undergrad at DU, and remaining here to pursue an MPP was the logical choice to continue learning and growing from Korbel’s broad and diverse knowledge base.
Otiwaa: My decision to pursue a Master of Public Policy at the Korbel School was driven by both my professional experience and a strong desire to effect significant change through policy. My first master's degree was an MBA in International Business, and I worked for a global mining logistics organization. However, I have always appreciated community engagement work, whether non-profit or not. I sought a career that would allow me to combine all of these things. Korbel appealed to me not only for its strong emphasis on international politics and global policy, but also for its interdisciplinary approach, which combines economics, governance, development, and ethical leadership. The chance to learn from practitioners, participate in real-world policy simulations, and interact with a diverse cohort made it the perfect setting for me to hone my talents and broaden my impact.
3. Which class(es) in the program have been the most impactful so far?
Olivia: I’ve really enjoyed the specialization component of the MPP degree, as it allowed me to build upon the base knowledge of the core public policy classes and explore a policy arena that I was particularly interested in. I chose to pursue the Homeland Security certification, introducing me to security-specific policy issues as well as the field I currently work in today, Emergency Management.
Otiwaa: Several classes have been especially impactful during my time at Korbel. Introduction to Public Policy Analysis was foundational—it set the tone for how I approach policy problems critically and systematically. I also really enjoyed the Social Impact and Sustainability Lab, which allowed me to explore practical ESG strategies, and Negotiating Conflicts and Environmental Policy, where I developed tools to navigate complex environmental and stakeholder dynamics
4. What are your career goals, and how do you think the MPP program is preparing you for this career?
Olivia: I’m focused on enhancing my knowledge of current policy problems in the Emergency Management space, particularly surrounding critical infrastructure and wildfire preparedness. Long-term, I hope to address these problems at the state or federal level to help strengthen the nation’s preparedness as natural disasters become increasingly frequent. The MPP program has prepared me to face these challenges with analytical experience and by valuing dissenting policy opinions in the search for the solution.
Otiwaa: My career goal is to lead in ESG and corporate responsibility strategy, helping businesses align their operations with social and environmental impact. The MPP program is equipping me with the analytical, negotiation, and policy design skills I need to drive that change—bridging the gap between business goals and public good.
5. What is one piece of advice you would offer to the Korbel Policy Society moving forward? Why do you think students should join/engage with KPS?
We both could not recommend involvement in student organizations more! Grad school can be difficult and isolating at times, and it is important to surround yourself with people who can motivate you through the challenges and celebrate the successes. Even if it’s not our club, find something at Korbel that allows you to step out of your cohort and learn from/lean on others.
6. What do you like most about living and studying in Denver? Do you have a favorite place or activity in town you want to share with our community?
Olivia: After a lifetime of horrible winters growing up in Cleveland, I have come to love the year-long sunshine of Denver. A random Wednesday in March could be a beautiful 75-degree day, opening opportunities for park days and long runs well before summer. At the moment, runs around Wash Park or afternoon happy hours at Denver Beer Company are getting me through spring quarter.
Otiwaa: What I enjoy most about Denver is how easy it is to connect with nature. Growing up in Ghana and spending nearly seven years studying in Morocco, I’ve always found peace and clarity in the outdoors. Hiking at Red Rocks or around Golden has become one of my favorite ways to unwind and reflect—it’s fun, refreshing, and keeps me grounded as I navigate grad school.
1. When did you attend DU, and what influenced your decision to enroll in the MPP program?
I attended DU from 2019-2023, beginning as an undergraduate student studying public policy and socio-legal studies, and then joining the MPP program through the 4+1 track. I was drawn to DU’s MPP program early on because of the fantastic opportunity to complete my graduate studies in parallel to my undergraduate work, and I loved my experience as a part of the undergraduate public policy program so knew it would be a great fit for me to stay at DU and pursue my MPP at Korbel.
2. What has been your career path since earning your MPP? How did the program help prepare you for what you’re doing now?
Since graduating, I have been a part of an organization called Whiteboard Advisors -- a social impact firm that works across research, policy advocacy, and communications to unlock educational and economic opportunity. I started with Whiteboard Advisors as an intern while finishing my MPP, and transitioned to an Associate role upon graduation before moving up to my current position as a Senior Associate. The practical, real-world skills I learned in the MPP program helped prepare me for my current role by being able to critically analyze existing policies, understand all possible implications, and come up with creative ideas that then inform conversations with state and school district leaders to drive more meaningful outcomes for all students.
3. What class(es) was/were particularly impactful? Do you remember some that changed the way you think about the world and/or helped you to improve your practical skills?
The most impactful class for me was The Policy Lab, because it was the most hands-on, directly applicable representation of developing a creative policy solution and taking the steps needed to make it successful. It was a great bridge between education and practice, and provided a unique opportunity directly engage with lawmakers in a meaningful way before even finishing the program.
4. How would you describe the most valuable aspect of your time in the MPP program, whether academic, professional, or personal?
The most valuable aspect of my time in the MPP program was developing my Capstone project, which focused on improving outcomes for at-risk students in Colorado. Working on this project not only helped me expand my subject matter expertise on an issue that would eventually become a key focus of my career, but also helped to develop my background in conducting in-depth policy research that requires identifying any and all potential implications of a potential programmatic solution. These are skills I use every day in my career, and that help me bring a more critical eye to policy in a way that allows for more creative interpretations of how to utilize policy to support student better student outcomes.
5. What advice would you give to current MPP students?
My advice to current students would be to keep an open mind about the policy areas you want to explore. Take classes outside of your primary interests, because they can provide valuable insights that you may not expect. For example, even though I now work in education policy, I have found that my coursework in health and water policy helped to broaden my thinking and expand my perspective on unique and creative ways to shape and interpret policy solutions.
6. What is a favorite story or memorable moment from your time as a student?
One of the most memorable moments from my time in the MPP program was our cost-benefit analysis class. It was one of the most difficult classes I took throughout the entire program, but also proved to be one of the most useful and rewarding. It definitely became a bonding experience for our cohort -- we all leaned on each other to help figure things out and eventually all get to a place where we could successfully complete a CBA.
1. What inspired you to join the Scrivner Institute and MPP program at Korbel?
When I saw the job posting in December 2023 for a new teaching-line faculty position, I was imme1diately intrigued. I myself have a Master of Public Policy (MPP) degree (Harvard Kennedy School, Class of 2019) and have found over the years that the degree’s emphasis on systematic and evidence-based approaches to research, reasoning, and implementation have served me well. Since arriving on campus, I have been energized by the Scrivner Institute’s momentum and am continually impressed by my student and faculty colleagues, who are hard-working, brilliant, possess integrity, and are committed to the public good.
2. What are your research interests and areas of expertise?
I study issues of urban planning; housing, land-use, and transportation policy; state and local politics and policy; and policy implementation. I conduct research on these topics in both international and domestic contexts: my PhD dissertation examined issues of post-apartheid planning for multi-racial and multi-ethnic democracy in South Africa, and much of my current work considers local urban policies related to housing and land use in the contemporary Colorado context.
3. What courses do you teach?
This past year, I taught courses in Urban Policy, Ethics in Public Policy, Policy Writing, and Public Policy Analysis. I also taught a “Policy Lab” course on Housing Policy.
4. What is an assignment/activity that you look forward to in your courses?
I have enjoyed developing client-driven courses in partnership with engaged, relevant, professional policy practitioners. Students work in teams and interface with these clients to produce timely products that can inform ongoing policy decisions and rollouts. This year, I have curated active course partnerships with the U.S. Department of State (through its “Diplomacy Lab” initiative), the Colorado State Office of Economic Development and International Trade (OEDIT), and the City and County of Denver’s Affordable Housing Review Team (AHRT) and its Community Planning and Development (CPD) and Housing Stability Teams (HOST). Next year, I’m looking forward to developing an additional partnership for students with the Lincoln Institute of Land Policy.
5. What do you believe is a unique contribution you bring to the MPP program/Scrivner Institute?
I am born and raised in Colorado, and have long been passionate about issues of Colorado politics and policy. I have also spent considerable time on the east coast of the United States and have lived and worked internationally. I believe I bring a policy perspective that is at once locally grounded and in tune with national and global policy conversations. I hope to strengthen the Scrivner Institute’s topical expertise on issues of urban policy, state and local politics and policy, and implementation, and further skills-based courses in writing and public policy analysis. My client-driven courses aim to ground the MPP program and Scrivner Institute in professionally relevant experiential learning.
6. Could you share more about a project or projects you are currently working on?
I am currently working with colleagues across the university on issues of affordable housing in Colorado, with an aim to study precise drivers and causes of Denver’s affordability crisis. This collaborative work has involved engagements with faculty at CU Boulder, CU Denver, and Metro State, among other institutions across the U.S., and involves leveraging a novel policy simulator model to gauge the effect of policy changes on affordable-housing development potential. Envisioned outcomes include academic journal articles, a public-facing policy white paper, and newspaper articles.
7. What is a favorite memory from your time as a faculty member so far?
In March 2025, I convened a symposium event at the end of my Ethics in Public Policy class where students invited individuals whom they considered to be ethical public leaders to campus. At the event, students shared their final philosophical papers and/or public-leader interviews with attendees and bonded over food and drink. It was a tremendous culmination to a quarter of engagements with questions of ethical decision-making in this contemporary moment.
8. What do you like most about living and working in Denver? Do you have a favorite place or activity in town you want to share with our community?
I love living in Denver! My wife and I live right next to Harvard Gulch Park and a favorite activity is simply a daily walk around the park, or perhaps a walk or bike ride into work on the DU campus. If anyone is looking for some incredible ice cream in the area, do check out Right Cream!
9. Any additional fun facts about yourself?
My wife and I are expecting our first baby this June! I am thrilled about the prospect of us setting down roots in Denver and continuing to learn, grow, and contribute to the DU, Korbel, and Scrivner Institute communities.
Colorado – On June 17–18, 2025, a diverse group of civic, political, and private sector leaders from across Colorado will gather in Sterling as part of the Colorado Project’s Rural Learning Tour. The Colorado Project is a unique statewide effort to advance shared prosperity and sustainable and inclusive growth in every corner of the state. The initiative is convened by the Josef Korbel School of Global and Public Affairs and the Scrivner Institute of Public Policy at the University of Denver, in collaboration with partners across the state.
In its second iteration, the Colorado Project will explore the substantive policy challenges that rural communities face, as well as the creative solutions they are developing in response. Dean of the Korbel School, Fritz Mayer, explains, “The Colorado Project is about bridging Colorado’s urban-rural divide with evidence‑based policy solutions. Sterling is where that conversation begins this year.” The Rural Learning Tour aims to capture local innovations that align with the Colorado Project’s four cornerstones: Colorado’s Promise (access to prosperity in all Colorado communities), sustainability and resilience, economic mobility and workforce, and cost of living. These cornerstones emerged from the first iteration of the Colorado Project, which culminated in a report detailing a strategy for inclusive statewide growth.
The Sterling gathering will spotlight rural housing innovations, career‑connected learning, renewable energy stewardship, and small businesses. Participants will tour a wind‑energy site in Crook, meet with Northeast Colorado Boards of Cooperative Educational Services (BOCES) and Northeastern Junior College leaders, and network with local entrepreneurs at community events on Main Street. "We're thrilled to welcome the Colorado Project's first Rural Renaissance convening to Sterling. Our community is eager to share how we are innovating and discuss stronger partnership opportunities across all northeast Colorado" shares Trae Miller, Executive Director of the Logan County Economic Development Corporation. The convening will also benefit the Colorado Project participants, who represent other communities across the state. Participant Heidi Williams, President and CEO of Civic Results and Executive Director of the Metro Mayors Caucus reiterates this point: “Colorado’s small towns have long been laboratories of innovation. By listening to Sterling’s local ingenuity we can scale ideas that benefit every corner of the state.”
After Sterling, the Rural Learning Tour will visit Alamosa (August 14–15) and the San Luis Valley, followed by a visit to Steamboat Springs (October 9–10) and the Yampa Valley. Each region’s challenges are distinct, but the tour seeks to surface cross‑cutting solutions that advance inclusive growth for all of rural Colorado.
To learn more about the Colorado Project, visit the website or contact [email protected].
The Korbel School’s Scrivner Institute of Public Policy and DU’s Center for Immigration Policy Research (CIPR) recently joined forces to present a Scrivner Policy Roundtable focusing on the DU Courtwatch Project. The Scrivner Policy Roundtable offers a chance for the DU and local policy communities to dive deep into pressing local issues. Designed to spark dialogue and build bridges, the roundtables are more than just discussions—they’re a catalyst for connection and action. The Scrivner Institute organizes the series and convenes the policy community in Denver and on campus, while partner organizations present their work or research and facilitate robust group discussions on the topic at hand.
The Scrivner Policy Roundtable is a fruitful example of leveraging synergies between DU entities and the Denver community to spur partnerships and opportunities to collaborate. The discussions that the roundtable facilitates among students, community organizations, faculty, and staff provide a more intimate, organic, and engaging way for students to network with the community, opening up potential projects, internship, or employment opportunities for students interested in local policy.
The latest Roundtable, “(In)Justice in the Immigration Court System,” was led by CIPR faculty, student research assistants, and community partners, including:
Panelists presented on the historical influences and current structure of the U.S. immigration court system, while also sharing personal observations of the Denver immigration court system. Their research focuses on two expedited mechanisms: the Dedicated Docket and the Family Expedited Removal Management Program (FERM). Table and group discussions following the presentation emphasized how academic research can advance social and policy change by bolstering transparency and promoting due process in a widely misunderstood and overburdened immigration system. Dr. Galemba noted that much of Denver’s immigration court proceedings are open to the public, saying “it takes an army to look at the immigration system.” The presenters extrapolated important lessons we can apply to the current moment in American immigration, which is seeing an unprecedented erosion of due process and a delegitimization of the internationally recognized right to claim asylum.
This collaborative Roundtable event, brought to life by the combined efforts of the Scrivner Institute and the CIPR, is the most recent example of the ways Korbel faculty and staff are connecting students with the broader Denver community. “It was informative, fascinating, and inspiring to hear the words of faculty, students, and community partners in conversation with each other about their intersecting sets of knowledge and shared commitment to using that knowledge for the collective good," said Dr. Naazneen Barma, Director of the Scrivner Institute of Public Policy and Associate Dean for Faculty Affairs at the Korbel School of International Studies. Korbel student, sophomore Klaire Cherryhomes, shared “I really valued the research, the empirical aspect of the presentation. Research is an essential way to deliver rights. Providing transparency to these incredibly closed-off systems is powerful."
The Scrivner Policy Roundtable exemplifies the Scrivner Institute’s commitment to its mission to equip students to tackle today’s most crucial policy issues with a local to global perspective and an emphasis on practical solutions. The Institute and Korbel School are dedicated to providing students opportunities to participate in essential, timely policy discussions by collaborating across DU and working alongside essential community partners.
Watch the recording of the event here, and to learn more about the Scrivner Policy Roundtables, visit the Scrivner Institute’s website.
This article was written with support from Scrivner Institute student Program Assistant Katia Diamond-Sagias.
What makes you feel safe? Is it a familiar voice on the phone, a particular place, friends or family by your side, your spiritual beliefs or even a favorite blanket?
What about a person outside your personal circle, like a paramedic, a lifeguard, a firefighter or a police officer?
20-year-old Joseph said that people should feel safe around police officers, but that isn’t always the case in Durham, North Carolina—where he lives—and elsewhere.
He says, “I think that police officers almost have to have a—not necessarily nurturing aspect, but kind of like a—sense of safety about them. Because you should feel safe around police officers, you know? I don’t necessarily know how to put that in a word, but I think that you should definitely just feel safe around police officers.”
So how can police departments increase safety and earn trust in the communities where they work?
University of Denver Assistant Professor of Public Policy Ajenai Clemmons’ research answers these questions that can extend beyond North Carolina.
On this episode of RadioEd, co-host Jordyn Reiland chats with Clemmons about how the men she interviewed made sense of policing in their neighborhood—and what they needed to both be safe and feel safe.
Clemmons is an assistant professor of public policy at the Scrivner Institute. She researches the policing of marginalized communities in democratic contexts, particularly the United States and Europe. She teaches courses on the politics of the policymaking process, intersectional inequality, as well as state violence and local security.
What the Durham Police Department Can Do to Enhance Safety and Earn Trust
RadioEd S5E3:
Guest: Ajenai Clemmons, Assistant Professor of Public Policy at the Scrivner Institute
Jordyn Reiland (00:04)
You're listening to RadioEd, the University of Denver podcast. I'm your host Jordyn Reiland.
What makes you feel safe? Is it a familiar voice on the phone, a particular place, friends or family by your side, your spiritual beliefs or even a favorite blanket?
What about a person outside your personal circle, like a paramedic, a lifeguard, a firefighter or a police officer?
20-year-old Joseph said that people should feel safe around police officers, but that isn’t always the case in Durham, North Carolina — where he lives — and elsewhere.
He says, “I think that police officers almost have to have a—not necessarily nurturing aspect, but kind of like a—sense of safety about them. Because you should feel safe around police officers, you know? I don’t necessarily know how to put that in a word, but I think that you should definitely just feel safe around police officers.”
So how can police departments increase safety and earn trust in the communities where they work?
University of Denver Assistant Professor of Public Policy Ajenai Clemmons’ research answers these questions that can extend beyond North Carolina.
Clemmons’ work around policing began in 2004 when she worked as a Community Relations Ombudsman in Denver. During that time Clemmons helped create a new government agency called the Office of the Independent Monitor.
Ajenai Clemmons (01:24)
This was in response to some very high-profile incidents, some officer-involved deaths of civilians in Denver and so the city, the citizens rose up. The city came together across all agencies and volunteers from the community as well, to study new systems of civilian oversight that could improve transparency and accountability for public safety in Denver.
Jordyn Reiland (01:49)
The role of the Office of the Independent Monitor allows for an outside party to ensure law enforcement investigations are fair, thorough and timely and that any discipline is reasonable and appropriate.
Civilian oversight of law enforcement is something that's been around for some decades now, but it looks different in every city. Civilian commissions or boards exist in cities throughout the country including Los Angeles, Chicago, Kansas City, Missouri and Detroit.
Clemmons also spent time in Washington, D.C. between 2010 and 2015, where she was the policy director for a national professional association of Black state legislators.
At that time there were a series of high-profile shootings across the country, including Travyon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland and Freddie Gray.
Clemmons’ interest in policing of marginalized communities only grew from there.
In 2018 until just before the onset of the pandemic, she conducted in-depth interviews with 18- to 29-year-old African American men—like 20-year-old Joseph, who we heard from earlier. These men lived in the most economically distressed, high violent crime areas in Durham.
Clemmons’ work sought to understand how they made sense of policing in their neighborhood — and what they needed to both be safe and feel safe.
She acknowledged the challenges of conducting this type of research in the community and wanted to find ways to ensure people felt the most comfortable sharing their thoughts — positive or negative.
Ajenai Clemmons (03:10)
I went out on foot into these neighborhoods and recruited them. I was in barber shops, I was on basketball courts talking to young men during halftime and trying to pull them aside to see if they were interested in my study. I was hitting the streets. So we did these interviews in a private location. I wanted them to be confidential so that people could be candid. These are very complex feelings that people have, and I wanted them to feel that they could be vulnerable, that they could feel comfortable to be fully honest about whether their experiences were negative, whether they were positive or whether they were neutral, that they would have the full range to discuss whatever they wanted. I was very honored that they were so forthcoming. And they didn't sugar coat anything, and they didn't hold back. And it wasn't just..they were also self-reflective. They talked about what their experiences were like as kids, as youth, as teenagers, you know, being angry, whether they had a chip on their shoulder or not, or whether they were trying to stay out of trouble, and the kinds of ways that they... the kinds of things that they did to keep themselves safe.
Interlude
Jordyn Reiland (04:44)
Why don't people trust the police?
Ajenai Clemmons (04:46)
Yeah, this is a very big question. It's simple, but it's actually complex in a lot of ways. So in a nutshell, people don't trust police when they feel like they're not doing their jobs. They trust police when they feel under policed, when they feel that police are not competent, and I'll talk about that in a second. And they also feel they don't trust police. When they feel that police are being abusive and they're harming them. So they're sort of over policed, right? So these are the neighborhoods that I study. I literally study neighborhoods that are considered by their residents to be over policed and under policed. So in these communities, there's this intense police presence. Residents are stopped on foot or in their vehicles in a way they describe as constant, intrusive and harassing. They describe many officers as quick to accuse them of wrongdoing, right to curse at them and to use unnecessary and excessive force. Yet in these same neighborhoods, in spite of all the police activity going on, they still face high levels of crime, right? And that includes violent crime, and so this causes stress and insecurity on their part. So there's this sense that you know there are all these police around, but they're not there when you need them, right, or they're not in the right spots or focused on the right priorities, or they don't care about us.
When people feel abandoned and neglected, sometimes they distance themselves in return. And so it goes beyond this sense of trust or mistrust, it can breed legal cynicism. And cynicism is this orientation in which the law and agents of its enforcement, like the police and courts, are viewed as illegitimate. They're viewed as unresponsive and ill-equipped to ensure public safety, and that's a definition from Kirk and Papachristos. So it is very much a sense of feeling alienated. And that can go beyond police. It can extend to the judicial system writ large. But when this happens, when people don't trust police anymore and they are cynical toward them, it's rational from the perspective of looking at an individual, but it actually harms the community as a whole, because what happens is that people won't report crime as much, right? They won't cooperate with investigations, they won't serve as witnesses in the court of law as readily, and this can make it very hard to bring people who commit crimes to justice, and I'm not talking about, you know, unserious crimes. I'm talking about serious crimes. And so, you know, these folks are not held accountable, and they are, in fact, making the community less safe. And then this further breeds the cynicism. It's a vicious cycle, because then people see folks running around who are threatening the community, and so then they even feel further alienated, as they feel that the police don't care about them.
Jordyn Reiland (07:55)
Wow, that must be so challenging, and it kind of alludes to what you were talking about with the different meanings and thoughts about safety. And I think you said feeling safe and being safe, if that's correct. Could you talk a little bit about that?
Ajenai Clemmons (08:11)
So in general, a lot of people assume that if crime numbers go down, then they will feel more safe, and that's actually not true. The perception of safety is completely independent of whether or not you are safe or your risk level. So crime went down for years, decades even, and people's assessment of the risk of crime really hasn't changed. And sometimes it went up, even though the crime was going down, depending on where you were. So those are two different things, and it actually makes police, their job tougher, because they do have that accountability of bringing down the crime levels. But then people can feel that way regardless. And so then they have to dedicate some considerable resources to making people feel safer.
In this context, though, there really is unacceptable levels of violent crime and so even though it's a tiny proportion of the population that's carrying it out, it is significant. And in a lot of it, there are innocent bystanders that get caught in the middle. And in fact, out of the men that I interviewed, eight had been shot at least once, and four of those were folks who were caught in the crossfire who didn't have any idea who the shooter was or were mistaken by the shooter for someone else. And then additional men that I interviewed who literally were at a bus stop, waiting for their bus to arrive to go to work, and ended up having to dive for cover as bullets whizzed past them, because somebody saw somebody that they had been looking for, and then, just without regard to the circumstances, just opened fire. So there really is an extraordinary level of risk in these particular neighborhoods, and so it is important for people to both be safer and to feel safer, and so I wanted to make sure that I was being intentional in pulling out those two things in the interviews.
Jordyn Reiland (10:36)
One question that you asked stood out to me, and you said, “If you had a magic wand and could make a perfect interaction happen between an officer and a civilian, what would you do?” And you said you can choose any scenario. Did any of those answers surprise you?
Ajenai Clemmons (10:52)
On the whole, most answers tried to find some sort of win-win. They tried to find some sort of reconciliation between both parties and ensure that that was a positive interaction. And so it wasn't the case that most people's first thought was to just take care of the needs of the civilian. That in that perfect scenario, they really did seek a win-win. And so I was struck by that. A lot of the men did use their wishes to also undo the deaths of the men who had been killed that we talked about earlier, those high-profile deaths that had happened across the country, there was a recognition of that. And it was something that all but one interview we related to on some level, that they could see themselves in those men who had died, or in those people who had died. We certainly want to take into account the women who have been killed as well. So they actually use their magic wand to undo those deaths and to undo the harms that have happened.
Jordyn Reiland (12:10)
You highlight five themes that emerged as the most desired characteristics for officers, including those who are just communicative, invested composed and discerning and adaptive in their decision making. Can you paint a picture for me of the ideal police officer?
Ajenai Clemmons (12:30)
There is not one person that I spoke with who thought that being a police officer was an easy job. Folks were very quick to say it is a hard job. Not everybody should be a police officer, there are a lot of things to manage. It was about being constitutional. People were clear about that. It was making sure that you're observing people's rights, that people are innocent until proven guilty—that officers are truly just in how they enforce the law.
But it goes beyond that. Really, they wanted officers to have integrity. They wanted officers to be good people. And I think this is because this is really the most powerful person in their lives. They're the only person who can literally take life. And so it is important then that people who hold the most amount of power are actually good and righteous, and because you don't have the opportunity to see officers outside of these sort of emergency situations, or time pressure situations, you need other opportunities to observe their behavior, to know if they're trustworthy, right? To know if you can bring confidential information to them, to know whether they will keep confidence and so this is where you know they wanted to see officers' character on display. How do you do that? Well, they got to get in the community. They’ve got to get involved.
Jordyn Reiland (14:14)
Clemmons said that what surprised her about her research in Durham was people’s inherent desire to have a connection and a relationship with law enforcement.
Ajenai Clemmons (14:22)
Now maybe because they can't tell who's a safe officer and who's not a safe officer, and because there's so much unpredictability that is possible in those interactions, having positive encounters and having incredibly scary negative encounters, the safer thing to do could be to avoid police. To try to minimize the possibility of an experience, right? To keep a low profile.
But that ideally in their heart of hearts, many wished that they could just casually walk up to a police officer, say hi, chat, check in, or have that police officer do the same. That in their ideal world, that's what the general relationship would be between the police and the community. That you would see officers jumping in and playing double dutch, or joining in a pickup game of basketball or guiding a young person and talking to them about healthy life choices that those officers would be leading by example, that they would be a fabric of the community, that they would be rolling up their sleeves, and serving food and soup kitchens. And so there were so many ways that they saw police as able to be a force for good that I didn't expect. I didn't expect that level of specificity and of richness and of desire in elevating, actually, the importance and the impact that officers could have.
I also want to add a quote that I think exemplifies this desire for a better relationship and what it would take in order for officers to build trust in the community. So I named this interviewee, Marcus, and he's 25. This is what he says:
“Get police to come out here in these neighborhoods where a lot of these people are getting shot and killed and do something. Make a difference. Go drop off flowers at some of these people's graves. Act like a human being. You want the community to trust you? Do something for the community. Communication. Do a fundraiser. Do a get together, throw a police parade, you know? How many cops are out here, genuinely just to protect and serve? If, instead of judging us, officers would be more prone to trying to get to know the people they see every day, we wouldn't have so many problems with law enforcement and young black men in the communities. Pull up to the basketball court, play some ball with us. Throw a football with us. They're all frisbee for all I care. But do something."
Jordyn Reiland (17:15)
Yeah that really gets to the heart of that aspect of trust building and community involvement and really harkens back to just wanting to have that dual interaction.
Ajenai Clemmons (17:28)
You know, sometimes we can overthink what it would take for officers to create connections. But the desire is already there. It just needs an opportunity to be tapped into. And so it can be so many simple little things that officers can do to connect with folks in a way that's authentic, in a way that's joyful, to have that organic experience. And so those are the things that I'll be researching in the future and working on – like matching officers, even, with opportunities to connect and in activities like anything from this basketball or something sports, to arts and crafts and music, and all sorts of things that young people and officers could take a joint interest in.
Jordyn Reiland (18:24)
Clemmons posed a question that went beyond policing and asked participants if they could have the full attention and concern of anyone in power to fix or improve anything in their life, what would it be?
Here’s one response that really stuck with her.
Ajenai Clemmons (18:37)
This is a quote that really moved me. This is from a young man, Joseph, who's 20 years old, and he said:
“I would tell politicians to more so hear the letter, not the law, of what's being said, and to try to understand people's feelings, not just what they're saying. What comes out of their mouth is ultimately influenced by how they feel. So, if you can understand how someone feels, then you're more so to meet their expectations, not just do what they tell you to do. To say it in other words, when you understand how someone feels, you're more so to not necessarily make the same mistake again, if they understand how we feel when they're reading the analysis and not just see what we're saying, but see in what we are saying, like how we feel, it would help them to make better decisions about how to accommodate what we're saying.”
This is at the heart of what I am trying to do as a researcher, is certainly capture their words, but also pair that with their underlying emotions to capture how they feel, so that when I'm sharing my findings and evidence with policy makers, that they're able to see both. That they're able to see the words, read the words, hear the words, but also understand what's behind that, what's underlying that, that subtext, so that they can properly receive that, understand it and then try to address it in the most appropriate way.
Interlude
Jordyn Reiland (20:29)
Now you write that, in addition to the work that you've done in Durham, at least hundreds, if not thousands of jurisdictions across the country would also be well served by participants' insights and calls for action. How does your work translate beyond North Carolina?
Ajenai Clemmons (20:44)
In terms of the policy recommendations that come out of this report, it is the relationship building. It's also the transparency. It's also the accountability. I mean, if you're not cleaning up things and making it better, if you're not resolving the problems that you know exist in your department, then you're not going to improve that relationship. So, there are many... the hiring, the recruitment, the policies that are in place, the accountability to make sure that those policies are being adhered to, the training and that follow up with the relationship building are all key.
And in Denver, we're fortunate that Police Chief Ron Thomas has taken an interest in this work as well, and so he has already taken many steps in his short—he just recently took over, was appointed relatively recently, and has already started implementing more community outreach programs. And so has asked me to advise on what implementation would look like. And so my colleague Kate Sims and I are working on that with the police department. So, we'll be rolling out a program and evaluating that and measuring and seeing what works, what doesn't work and how to improve upon that. And I think it's commendable, to see a chief that is deeply interested in the evidence base and being a willing partner in the research process to see what can work and how to improve and make things better.
Jordyn Reiland (22:37)
This report is based on interviews that concluded in March 2020 and a lot has happened in the United States as it relates to policing since that time. How do you think about these findings in 2024?
Ajenai Clemmons (22:49)
I believe the findings are still very much relevant in 2024. In the interviews, which ended in March, which ended at the at the onset of the pandemic, the men were very vocal about the deaths that preceded George Floyd, which happened three months after I ended the interviews And so they related very much to the men that they had seen, the people that they had seen in the media. They were concerned about that, they used their magic wand and one of my questions to undo their deaths. So, this was at the forefront. It was something that they thought about when they got pulled over by police. So, George Floyd was not new, in other words, sadly. It was not new to them at all. And so in that sense, I think that the findings still stand.
There have been some researchers that have found in terms of behaviors, like, for example, calling the police to report a crime, that those can be temporarily affected by high profile, very disturbing incidents, but that with time, the behaviors return to normal. And so there's a sort of eventual kind of snap back effect, for lack of a better term, that happens. So whether it's reporting crime, whether it's their likelihood of cooperating with investigations, or avoiding police – whatever police behaviors they had before, whether they were avoiding them, whether they were cooperating with them, all of that, I think, is still relevant. There haven't been a ton of reforms that have happened across the country, not in any kind of systematic way. And so the concerns that they have are still very much present in most jurisdictions, and to the extent that some things were done, not nearly enough, as far as they would be concerned, so the problem is still there. The concerns are still there, and what they were calling for still remains. So yeah, I mean taking all that into account, would say that the findings still stand.
Jordyn Reiland (25:33)
A big thanks to our guest, University of Denver Assistant Professor of Public Policy Ajenai Clemmons. More information on her work can be found in our show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, I encourage you to subscribe to the podcast on Apple Music or Spotify, and if you really liked it, leave us a review and rate our work. It really helps us reach a larger audience and grow the pod.
Joy Hamilton is our Managing Editor, Madeleine Lebovic is our production assistant and musical genius, and James Swearingin arranged our theme. I'm Jordyn Reiland and this is RadioEd.
Article written by Jordyn Reiland.
Over the past two years, the Scrivner Institute of Public Policy and Korbel School have proudly partnered with the Aspen Institute to offer a Denver Dialogues panel at the Aspen Strategy Group’s annual Aspen Security Forum (ASF), the premier national security and foreign policy conference in the United States. This past July, the Scrivner Institute and Korbel School, in collaboration with the Aspen Strategy Group, convened a special edition panel at ASF entitled “The End of Soft Power?”, exploring the state of soft power in the contemporary global context.
This summer, the Aspen Institute generously extended four complementary passes to Korbel students to join Korbel Dean Fritz Mayer and Scrivner Institute Director Naazneen Barma at the Forum. After applying to receive one of the passes, Korbel students Omar Aittakalla, Micah DenBraber, Norair Hevorkian, and Hans Schaler were selected to attend the 15th annual Aspen Security Forum in Aspen, CO. The students made the most of the wonderful opportunity to engage with experts in international security and diplomacy, learn about the most pressing global issues from domestic and global leaders, and to network with policymakers, diplomats, and scholars.
Student attendee Omar Aittakalla, who is in the International Development graduate program, reflected on his experience: “Attending the Aspen Security Forum has been one of the most enriching experiences of my summer. The opportunity to engage with leaders who have shaped, are shaping, and will shape the future of global security was truly unparalleled. I had the privilege to converse with a diverse array of experts, including seasoned policymakers, influential thought leaders, and rising stars in the field…Topics ranged from the strategic implications of space and cybersecurity to the geopolitical dynamics of great power competition. These discussions not only deepened my understanding of the difficulties we confront on a global scale but also instilled in me a sense of optimism…"
"As I reflect on my time at the Aspen Security Forum, I am left with a renewed sense of purpose and a deeper appreciation for the collaborative efforts required to navigate the complexities our world is facing and will continue to face in the future.”
Micah DenBraber, another student attendee, said: “Attending the 2024 Aspen Security Forum was truly life changing. As an undergraduate international affairs major at Korbel, it was exhilarating to engage in conversations with top policy and business professionals in the national security space. A highlight of the forum was attending the Google AI security breakfast, where the new multi-stakeholder standards initiative, the Coalition for Safe AI (COSAI), was announced. This initiative brings together AI developers, industry leaders, academics, policymakers, and civil society organizations to promote the safe and responsible development, deployment, and governance of AI technologies. One of the most memorable moments for me was approaching a panelist during the AI security dialogue, where my initial nerves gave way to forming a valuable connection with someone who offered to support my BA thesis. As I enter my final undergraduate year, I’m excited to leverage the insights and connections gained at ASF to pursue opportunities in the global governance of artificial intelligence. I’m incredibly grateful to the Scrivner Institute and the Korbel School for facilitating this unmatched exposure to the nation’s leading national security practitioners and granting students such transformative opportunities.”
The Scrivner Institute and Korbel School are proud to partner with the Aspen Strategy Group in offering a transformative experience for our students and connecting a new generation of foreign policy leaders to ASG. We extend our thanks to the Aspen Strategy Group for their generous invitation for Korbel students to attend the Aspen Security Forum this summer and look forward to this mutually beneficial partnership in the years to come.
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