RadioEd co-host Jordyn Reiland chats with Assistant Professor Ajenai Clemmons about community policing and what people need to both be safe and feel safe. Listen to their interview here.

What makes you feel safe? Is it a familiar voice on the phone, a particular place, friends or family by your side, your spiritual beliefs or even a favorite blanket?

What about a person outside your personal circle, like a paramedic, a lifeguard, a firefighter or a police officer?

20-year-old Joseph said that people should feel safe around police officers, but that isn’t always the case in Durham, North Carolina—where he lives—and elsewhere.

He says, “I think that police officers almost have to have a—not necessarily nurturing aspect, but kind of like a—sense of safety about them. Because you should feel safe around police officers, you know? I don’t necessarily know how to put that in a word, but I think that you should definitely just feel safe around police officers.”

So how can police departments increase safety and earn trust in the communities where they work?

University of Denver Assistant Professor of Public Policy Ajenai Clemmons’ research answers these questions that can extend beyond North Carolina.

On this episode of RadioEd, co-host Jordyn Reiland chats with Clemmons about how the men she interviewed made sense of policing in their neighborhood—and what they needed to both be safe and feel safe.

Clemmons is an assistant professor of public policy at the Scrivner Institute. She researches the policing of marginalized communities in democratic contexts, particularly the United States and Europe. She teaches courses on the politics of the policymaking process, intersectional inequality, as well as state violence and local security.

More Information:

What the Durham Police Department Can Do to Enhance Safety and Earn Trust

Transcript

RadioEd S5E3: 

Guest: Ajenai Clemmons, Assistant Professor of Public Policy at the Scrivner Institute

Jordyn Reiland (00:04)

You're listening to RadioEd, the University of Denver podcast. I'm your host Jordyn Reiland.

What makes you feel safe? Is it a familiar voice on the phone, a particular place, friends or family by your side, your spiritual beliefs or even a favorite blanket?

What about a person outside your personal circle, like a paramedic, a lifeguard, a firefighter or a police officer?

20-year-old Joseph said that people should feel safe around police officers, but that isn’t always the case in Durham, North Carolina — where he lives — and elsewhere.

He says, “I think that police officers almost have to have a—not necessarily nurturing aspect, but kind of like a—sense of safety about them. Because you should feel safe around police officers, you know? I don’t necessarily know how to put that in a word, but I think that you should definitely just feel safe around police officers.”

So how can police departments increase safety and earn trust in the communities where they work?

University of Denver Assistant Professor of Public Policy Ajenai Clemmons’ research answers these questions that can extend beyond North Carolina.

Clemmons’ work around policing began in 2004 when she worked as a Community Relations Ombudsman in Denver. During that time Clemmons helped create a new government agency called the Office of the Independent Monitor.

Ajenai Clemmons (01:24) 

This was in response to some very high-profile incidents, some officer-involved deaths of civilians in Denver and so the city, the citizens rose up. The city came together across all agencies and volunteers from the community as well, to study new systems of civilian oversight that could improve transparency and accountability for public safety in Denver.

Jordyn Reiland (01:49)

The role of the Office of the Independent Monitor allows for an outside party to ensure law enforcement investigations are fair, thorough and timely and that any discipline is reasonable and appropriate.

Civilian oversight of law enforcement is something that's been around for some decades now, but it looks different in every city. Civilian commissions or boards exist in cities throughout the country including Los Angeles, Chicago, Kansas City, Missouri and Detroit.

Clemmons also spent time in Washington, D.C. between 2010 and 2015, where she was the policy director for a national professional association of Black state legislators.

At that time there were a series of high-profile shootings across the country, including Travyon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland and Freddie Gray.

Clemmons’ interest in policing of marginalized communities only grew from there.

In 2018 until just before the onset of the pandemic, she conducted in-depth interviews with 18- to 29-year-old African American men—like 20-year-old Joseph, who we heard from earlier. These men lived in the most economically distressed, high violent crime areas in Durham.

Clemmons’ work sought to understand how they made sense of policing in their neighborhood — and what they needed to both be safe and feel safe.

She acknowledged the challenges of conducting this type of research in the community and wanted to find ways to ensure people felt the most comfortable sharing their thoughts — positive or negative.

Ajenai Clemmons (03:10)

I went out on foot into these neighborhoods and recruited them. I was in barber shops, I was on basketball courts talking to young men during halftime and trying to pull them aside to see if they were interested in my study. I was hitting the streets. So we did these interviews in a private location. I wanted them to be confidential so that people could be candid. These are very complex feelings that people have, and I wanted them to feel that they could be vulnerable, that they could feel comfortable to be fully honest about whether their experiences were negative, whether they were positive or whether they were neutral, that they would have the full range to discuss whatever they wanted. I was very honored that they were so forthcoming. And they didn't sugar coat anything, and they didn't hold back. And it wasn't just..they were also self-reflective. They talked about what their experiences were like as kids, as youth, as teenagers, you know, being angry, whether they had a chip on their shoulder or not, or whether they were trying to stay out of trouble, and the kinds of ways that they... the kinds of things that they did to keep themselves safe.

Interlude

Jordyn Reiland (04:44)

Why don't people trust the police?

Ajenai Clemmons (04:46)

Yeah, this is a very big question. It's simple, but it's actually complex in a lot of ways. So in a nutshell, people don't trust police when they feel like they're not doing their jobs. They trust police when they feel under policed, when they feel that police are not competent, and I'll talk about that in a second. And they also feel they don't trust police. When they feel that police are being abusive and they're harming them. So they're sort of over policed, right? So these are the neighborhoods that I study. I literally study neighborhoods that are considered by their residents to be over policed and under policed. So in these communities, there's this intense police presence. Residents are stopped on foot or in their vehicles in a way they describe as constant, intrusive and harassing. They describe many officers as quick to accuse them of wrongdoing, right to curse at them and to use unnecessary and excessive force. Yet in these same neighborhoods, in spite of all the police activity going on, they still face high levels of crime, right? And that includes violent crime, and so this causes stress and insecurity on their part. So there's this sense that you know there are all these police around, but they're not there when you need them, right, or they're not in the right spots or focused on the right priorities, or they don't care about us.

When people feel abandoned and neglected, sometimes they distance themselves in return. And so it goes beyond this sense of trust or mistrust, it can breed legal cynicism. And cynicism is this orientation in which the law and agents of its enforcement, like the police and courts, are viewed as illegitimate. They're viewed as unresponsive and ill-equipped to ensure public safety, and that's a definition from Kirk and Papachristos. So it is very much a sense of feeling alienated. And that can go beyond police. It can extend to the judicial system writ large. But when this happens, when people don't trust police anymore and they are cynical toward them, it's rational from the perspective of looking at an individual, but it actually harms the community as a whole, because what happens is that people won't report crime as much, right? They won't cooperate with investigations, they won't serve as witnesses in the court of law as readily, and this can make it very hard to bring people who commit crimes to justice, and I'm not talking about, you know, unserious crimes. I'm talking about serious crimes. And so, you know, these folks are not held accountable, and they are, in fact, making the community less safe. And then this further breeds the cynicism. It's a vicious cycle, because then people see folks running around who are threatening the community, and so then they even feel further alienated, as they feel that the police don't care about them.

Jordyn Reiland (07:55)

Wow, that must be so challenging, and it kind of alludes to what you were talking about with the different meanings and thoughts about safety. And I think you said feeling safe and being safe, if that's correct. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Ajenai Clemmons (08:11)

So in general, a lot of people assume that if crime numbers go down, then they will feel more safe, and that's actually not true. The perception of safety is completely independent of whether or not you are safe or your risk level. So crime went down for years, decades even, and people's assessment of the risk of crime really hasn't changed. And sometimes it went up, even though the crime was going down, depending on where you were. So those are two different things, and it actually makes police, their job tougher, because they do have that accountability of bringing down the crime levels. But then people can feel that way regardless. And so then they have to dedicate some considerable resources to making people feel safer.

In this context, though, there really is unacceptable levels of violent crime and so even though it's a tiny proportion of the population that's carrying it out, it is significant. And in a lot of it, there are innocent bystanders that get caught in the middle. And in fact, out of the men that I interviewed, eight had been shot at least once, and four of those were folks who were caught in the crossfire who didn't have any idea who the shooter was or were mistaken by the shooter for someone else. And then additional men that I interviewed who literally were at a bus stop, waiting for their bus to arrive to go to work, and ended up having to dive for cover as bullets whizzed past them, because somebody saw somebody that they had been looking for, and then, just without regard to the circumstances, just opened fire. So there really is an extraordinary level of risk in these particular neighborhoods, and so it is important for people to both be safer and to feel safer, and so I wanted to make sure that I was being intentional in pulling out those two things in the interviews.

Jordyn Reiland (10:36)

One question that you asked stood out to me, and you said, “If you had a magic wand and could make a perfect interaction happen between an officer and a civilian, what would you do?” And you said you can choose any scenario. Did any of those answers surprise you?

Ajenai Clemmons (10:52)

On the whole, most answers tried to find some sort of win-win. They tried to find some sort of reconciliation between both parties and ensure that that was a positive interaction. And so it wasn't the case that most people's first thought was to just take care of the needs of the civilian. That in that perfect scenario, they really did seek a win-win. And so I was struck by that. A lot of the men did use their wishes to also undo the deaths of the men who had been killed that we talked about earlier, those high-profile deaths that had happened across the country, there was a recognition of that. And it was something that all but one interview we related to on some level, that they could see themselves in those men who had died, or in those people who had died. We certainly want to take into account the women who have been killed as well. So they actually use their magic wand to undo those deaths and to undo the harms that have happened.

Jordyn Reiland (12:10)

You highlight five themes that emerged as the most desired characteristics for officers, including those who are just communicative, invested composed and discerning and adaptive in their decision making. Can you paint a picture for me of the ideal police officer?

Ajenai Clemmons (12:30)

There is not one person that I spoke with who thought that being a police officer was an easy job. Folks were very quick to say it is a hard job. Not everybody should be a police officer, there are a lot of things to manage. It was about being constitutional. People were clear about that. It was making sure that you're observing people's rights, that people are innocent until proven guilty—that officers are truly just in how they enforce the law.

But it goes beyond that. Really, they wanted officers to have integrity. They wanted officers to be good people. And I think this is because this is really the most powerful person in their lives. They're the only person who can literally take life. And so it is important then that people who hold the most amount of power are actually good and righteous, and because you don't have the opportunity to see officers outside of these sort of emergency situations, or time pressure situations, you need other opportunities to observe their behavior, to know if they're trustworthy, right? To know if you can bring confidential information to them, to know whether they will keep confidence and so this is where you know they wanted to see officers' character on display. How do you do that? Well, they got to get in the community. They’ve got to get involved.

Jordyn Reiland (14:14)

Clemmons said that what surprised her about her research in Durham was people’s inherent desire to have a connection and a relationship with law enforcement.

Ajenai Clemmons (14:22) 

Now maybe because they can't tell who's a safe officer and who's not a safe officer, and because there's so much unpredictability that is possible in those interactions, having positive encounters and having incredibly scary negative encounters, the safer thing to do could be to avoid police. To try to minimize the possibility of an experience, right? To keep a low profile.

But that ideally in their heart of hearts, many wished that they could just casually walk up to a police officer, say hi, chat, check in, or have that police officer do the same. That in their ideal world, that's what the general relationship would be between the police and the community. That you would see officers jumping in and playing double dutch, or joining in a pickup game of basketball or guiding a young person and talking to them about healthy life choices that those officers would be leading by example, that they would be a fabric of the community, that they would be rolling up their sleeves, and serving food and soup kitchens. And so there were so many ways that they saw police as able to be a force for good that I didn't expect. I didn't expect that level of specificity and of richness and of desire in elevating, actually, the importance and the impact that officers could have.

I also want to add a quote that I think exemplifies this desire for a better relationship and what it would take in order for officers to build trust in the community. So I named this interviewee, Marcus, and he's 25. This is what he says:

“Get police to come out here in these neighborhoods where a lot of these people are getting shot and killed and do something. Make a difference. Go drop off flowers at some of these people's graves. Act like a human being. You want the community to trust you? Do something for the community. Communication. Do a fundraiser. Do a get together, throw a police parade, you know? How many cops are out here, genuinely just to protect and serve? If, instead of judging us, officers would be more prone to trying to get to know the people they see every day, we wouldn't have so many problems with law enforcement and young black men in the communities. Pull up to the basketball court, play some ball with us. Throw a football with us. They're all frisbee for all I care. But do something."

Jordyn Reiland (17:15)

Yeah that really gets to the heart of that aspect of trust building and community involvement and really harkens back to just wanting to have that dual interaction.

Ajenai Clemmons (17:28)

You know, sometimes we can overthink what it would take for officers to create connections. But the desire is already there. It just needs an opportunity to be tapped into. And so it can be so many simple little things that officers can do to connect with folks in a way that's authentic, in a way that's joyful, to have that organic experience. And so those are the things that I'll be researching in the future and working on – like matching officers, even, with opportunities to connect and in activities like anything from this basketball or something sports, to arts and crafts and music, and all sorts of things that young people and officers could take a joint interest in.

Jordyn Reiland (18:24)

Clemmons posed a question that went beyond policing and asked participants if they could have the full attention and concern of anyone in power to fix or improve anything in their life, what would it be?

Here’s one response that really stuck with her.

Ajenai Clemmons (18:37)

This is a quote that really moved me. This is from a young man, Joseph, who's 20 years old, and he said:

“I would tell politicians to more so hear the letter, not the law, of what's being said, and to try to understand people's feelings, not just what they're saying. What comes out of their mouth is ultimately influenced by how they feel. So, if you can understand how someone feels, then you're more so to meet their expectations, not just do what they tell you to do. To say it in other words, when you understand how someone feels, you're more so to not necessarily make the same mistake again, if they understand how we feel when they're reading the analysis and not just see what we're saying, but see in what we are saying, like how we feel, it would help them to make better decisions about how to accommodate what we're saying.”

This is at the heart of what I am trying to do as a researcher, is certainly capture their words, but also pair that with their underlying emotions to capture how they feel, so that when I'm sharing my findings and evidence with policy makers, that they're able to see both. That they're able to see the words, read the words, hear the words, but also understand what's behind that, what's underlying that, that subtext, so that they can properly receive that, understand it and then try to address it in the most appropriate way.

Interlude

Jordyn Reiland (20:29) 

Now you write that, in addition to the work that you've done in Durham, at least hundreds, if not thousands of jurisdictions across the country would also be well served by participants' insights and calls for action. How does your work translate beyond North Carolina?

Ajenai Clemmons (20:44)

In terms of the policy recommendations that come out of this report, it is the relationship building. It's also the transparency. It's also the accountability. I mean, if you're not cleaning up things and making it better, if you're not resolving the problems that you know exist in your department, then you're not going to improve that relationship. So, there are many... the hiring, the recruitment, the policies that are in place, the accountability to make sure that those policies are being adhered to, the training and that follow up with the relationship building are all key.

And in Denver, we're fortunate that Police Chief Ron Thomas has taken an interest in this work as well, and so he has already taken many steps in his short—he just recently took over, was appointed relatively recently, and has already started implementing more community outreach programs. And so has asked me to advise on what implementation would look like. And so my colleague Kate Sims and I are working on that with the police department. So, we'll be rolling out a program and evaluating that and measuring and seeing what works, what doesn't work and how to improve upon that. And I think it's commendable, to see a chief that is deeply interested in the evidence base and being a willing partner in the research process to see what can work and how to improve and make things better.

Jordyn Reiland (22:37) 

This report is based on interviews that concluded in March 2020 and a lot has happened in the United States as it relates to policing since that time. How do you think about these findings in 2024?

Ajenai Clemmons (22:49)

I believe the findings are still very much relevant in 2024. In the interviews, which ended in March, which ended at the at the onset of the pandemic, the men were very vocal about the deaths that preceded George Floyd, which happened three months after I ended the interviews And so they related very much to the men that they had seen, the people that they had seen in the media. They were concerned about that, they used their magic wand and one of my questions to undo their deaths. So, this was at the forefront. It was something that they thought about when they got pulled over by police. So, George Floyd was not new, in other words, sadly. It was not new to them at all. And so in that sense, I think that the findings still stand.

There have been some researchers that have found in terms of behaviors, like, for example, calling the police to report a crime, that those can be temporarily affected by high profile, very disturbing incidents, but that with time, the behaviors return to normal. And so there's a sort of eventual kind of snap back effect, for lack of a better term, that happens. So whether it's reporting crime, whether it's their likelihood of cooperating with investigations, or avoiding police – whatever police behaviors they had before, whether they were avoiding them, whether they were cooperating with them, all of that, I think, is still relevant. There haven't been a ton of reforms that have happened across the country, not in any kind of systematic way. And so the concerns that they have are still very much present in most jurisdictions, and to the extent that some things were done, not nearly enough, as far as they would be concerned, so the problem is still there. The concerns are still there, and what they were calling for still remains. So yeah, I mean taking all that into account, would say that the findings still stand.

Jordyn Reiland (25:33)

A big thanks to our guest, University of Denver Assistant Professor of Public Policy Ajenai Clemmons. More information on her work can be found in our show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, I encourage you to subscribe to the podcast on Apple Music or Spotify, and if you really liked it, leave us a review and rate our work. It really helps us reach a larger audience and grow the pod.

Joy Hamilton is our Managing Editor, Madeleine Lebovic is our production assistant and musical genius, and James Swearingin arranged our theme. I'm Jordyn Reiland and this is RadioEd.

Article written by Jordyn Reiland.

Over the past two years, the Scrivner Institute of Public Policy and Korbel School have proudly partnered with the Aspen Institute to offer a Denver Dialogues panel at the Aspen Strategy Group’s annual Aspen Security Forum (ASF), the premier national security and foreign policy conference in the United States. This past July, the Scrivner Institute and Korbel School, in collaboration with the Aspen Strategy Group, convened a special edition panel at ASF entitled “The End of Soft Power?”, exploring the state of soft power in the contemporary global context.

This summer, the Aspen Institute generously extended four complementary passes to Korbel students to join Korbel Dean Fritz Mayer and Scrivner Institute Director Naazneen Barma at the Forum. After applying to receive one of the passes, Korbel students Omar Aittakalla, Micah DenBraber, Norair Hevorkian, and Hans Schaler were selected to attend the 15th annual Aspen Security Forum in Aspen, CO. The students made the most of the wonderful opportunity to engage with experts in international security and diplomacy, learn about the most pressing global issues from domestic and global leaders, and to network with policymakers, diplomats, and scholars.

Student attendee Omar Aittakalla, who is in the International Development graduate program, reflected on his experience: “Attending the Aspen Security Forum has been one of the most enriching experiences of my summer. The opportunity to engage with leaders who have shaped, are shaping, and will shape the future of global security was truly unparalleled. I had the privilege to converse with a diverse array of experts, including seasoned policymakers, influential thought leaders, and rising stars in the field…Topics ranged from the strategic implications of space and cybersecurity to the geopolitical dynamics of great power competition. These discussions not only deepened my understanding of the difficulties we confront on a global scale but also instilled in me a sense of optimism…"

"As I reflect on my time at the Aspen Security Forum, I am left with a renewed sense of purpose and a deeper appreciation for the collaborative efforts required to navigate the complexities our world is facing and will continue to face in the future.”

Micah DenBraber, another student attendee, said: “Attending the 2024 Aspen Security Forum was truly life changing. As an undergraduate international affairs major at Korbel, it was exhilarating to engage in conversations with top policy and business professionals in the national security space. A highlight of the forum was attending the Google AI security breakfast, where the new multi-stakeholder standards initiative, the Coalition for Safe AI (COSAI), was announced. This initiative brings together AI developers, industry leaders, academics, policymakers, and civil society organizations to promote the safe and responsible development, deployment, and governance of AI technologies. One of the most memorable moments for me was approaching a panelist during the AI security dialogue, where my initial nerves gave way to forming a valuable connection with someone who offered to support my BA thesis. As I enter my final undergraduate year, I’m excited to leverage the insights and connections gained at ASF to pursue opportunities in the global governance of artificial intelligence. I’m incredibly grateful to the Scrivner Institute and the Korbel School for facilitating this unmatched exposure to the nation’s leading national security practitioners and granting students such transformative opportunities.”

The Scrivner Institute and Korbel School are proud to partner with the Aspen Strategy Group in offering a transformative experience for our students and connecting a new generation of foreign policy leaders to ASG. We extend our thanks to the Aspen Strategy Group for their generous invitation for Korbel students to attend the Aspen Security Forum this summer and look forward to this mutually beneficial partnership in the years to come.

Kalysta Holder (MPP/MSW '25)

 

1. You’re in both the graduate public policy and social work programs. What made you choose to pursue both a MPP and a MSW? 

I graduated from the University of California, Santa Barbara in 2020 with a B.S. in Psychology and Brain Sciences as well as with a minor in Applied Psychology. I knew, at the time, that I wanted to work in the mental health sector and had the opportunity to work as a Behavioral Health Tech for Alsana, an eating disorder treatment center, in Santa Barbara. Three months into that role, I was promoted to Program Manager and in June 2022 when I left Alsana I was their Sr. Program Director. In that role I managed the operations of two treatment locations encompassing three different program levels. I bring this up not only because of how impactful this experience was but also because it catapulted the direction of my career. I was originally interested in pursuing clinical work however, this experience allowed me a comprehensive understanding of behavioral healthcare and insight into the many systems at work. I realized my passions and interests lay within understanding and impacting systems. As I researched different career paths relating to macro social change, I realized that an MPP and MSW would allow me to effectively combine my interests of social justice, systems work, and policy and eventually pursue a career in social policy. It was important to me that my education takes both a logistical and human rights approach to this work.

2. Which classes have been the most interesting or impactful so far?  

I feel extremely lucky to have been able to take classes with such incredible professors at both schools. While I am only in my second quarter of the MPP program, I found Dr. Barma’s Intro to Policy Analysis course to be incredibly impactful. Not only did it provide a great foundation to begin the MPP, but Dr. Barma provided the space to challenge and think critically about the content which cultivated thought-provoking meaningful conversations in class. For me, that class solidified that I am pursuing the right degree and made me excited about the rest of the program. Within the MSW program, I am currently taking The Prison Industrial Complex and Abolition course with Dr. Sarantakos. He designed this course to center the voices of people impacted by the carceral state which has been incredibly impactful. The course forces me and the class to sit in the discomfort of the many human rights violations of the prison system. I feel lucky to participate in classes like these where I get to analyze issues from both a policy and grassroots lens.

3. What are your career goals? How is the dual degree program helping to prepare you for this? 

I am currently exploring my career goals and am open to a variety of opportunities. My main priority is ensuring that the work I do is meaningful and impactful. One topic that especially interests me is healthcare policy. I would be very excited to work in that field. The dual degree has been great not only in terms of skillset development for my future career but also in exposing me to different organizations and role possibilities because of doing research for classes and talking to professors.

4. What differences do you notice between the MPP and MSW programs? What do you learn particularly from the combination of classes? 

Given that many students in the MSW program are pursuing clinical or micro-social work roles, the first year of the program attempted to cover a vast variety of introductory topics in social work. Comparatively, I have found the first year of the MPP program to be more focused to ensure students have a strong basic understanding of policy. Both programs have taught a lot; however, in my experience, there is a greater focus on theory in the MSW vs. a greater focus on skills in the MPP. The programs and classes have felt compatible and, as a result, have allowed me to deepen my understanding and approach topics from a variety of perspectives. For example, my Cost-Benefit Analysis course at Korbel and my Prison Industrial Complex and Abolition course at GSSW discuss issue analysis in vastly different ways which has given me a great basis for my Cost-Benefit Analysis quarter-long project for which I’ve chosen a topic relating to sentencing.

5. Are you involved in any clubs, organizations, or other opportunities outside of your program? Can you tell us more about those experiences and how they have impacted your experience in the MPP program? 

Outside of school I work part-time for the Denver Public School system as their Operations Coordinator for their Exceptional Student Services Department. This department includes student services including nursing, social work, psych, substance abuse prevention, section 504, special education, and more. I support these sub-departments with logistics and project management. This work has given me greater insight into the challenges and benefits of working in large, bureaucratic institutions.

6. What do you like most about Denver? Any favorite place or activity in town you want to share with the audience? 

I love finding great places to eat. I would highly recommend Taste of Thailand on Broadway and Lucky Noodles on Colfax for great Thai. My absolute favorite restaurant in Denver is called Q House – I can’t recommend it enough.

Lapo Salucci, Teaching Associate Professor 

 

1. How long have you worked with the MPP program at DU? What initially attracted you to this program? 

I have worked with the MPP program since 2010. The practical side of the teaching was what attracted me to the program.

2. What classes do you teach?  

Classes on Public Policy, Urban Policy, Demography and Data Preparation.

3. What are your research interests?  

My research interests are centered on cities and how they and their citizens change over time.

4. Please tell us more about one project you’re working on currently. 

I am working on a book on the policy determinants of mobility across US cities with my co-author, Kenneth N. Bickers of the University of Colorado at Boulder.

5. You are the longest-serving faculty member in the MPP program. What are the strengths of the program now that it is housed at Korbel and has become part of the Scrivner Institute? 

I like that we have much more interaction with a larger faculty with many different interests and backgrounds.

6. You’re the MPP capstone advisor. What do you like best about working with students on their capstone projects?  

It is extremely rewarding to help students develop their expertise in policy analysis and see them mature through the process.

7. What are some of the most diverse capstone topics that you’ve seen?  

We’ve had an enormous variation in capstone topics, ranging from the issue of homelessness to the state of the Colorado river basin.

8. What is your favorite activity/assignment to do in your classes?  

I like asking a set of students to agree or disagree with a controversial statement and let them explain the reasoning behind their agreement or disagreement. Then other students can ask them questions and the discussion can develop further.

9. Any additional fun facts?

I have completed the first two levels of a sommelier course.

10. What do you like most about Denver? Do you have any favorite place or activity in town you want to share with our community? 

Denver is a human-sized city, with a lot to offer to people of different interests and backgrounds. The city has evolved enormously in the last fifteen years; a change that brought challenges and opportunities. With my daughter, we like to go to Osaka Ramen and Cart-Driver pizza.

Adam Burg (MPP '17), Director of Federal & State Affairs, City and County of Denver  

 

1. When did you attend DU? What made you choose the MPP program? 

I attended DU from 2015-2017. I chose the MPP program at DU after spending a few years working on political campaigns and deciding to go back to school. I knew I wanted to continue to work in politics, and after some time working at the Colorado General Assembly, I decided that public policy was of more interest to me than electoral politics. Having grown up in Denver, I knew that DU offered both a great education and the opportunity to continue to work in Colorado Politics while I went to graduate school.

While considering whether to stay in Colorado and attend DU or go to school on the east coast, I was fortunate enough to have two meetings that altered the course of my life: One with former Colorado Governor Dick Lamm, and one with former US Senator Alan Simpson. Both men spoke to me about what it means to be a proud Westerner – and how there is something said about trying to make the place I call home just a little bit better. That convinced me even further that DU was the right place for me.

2. What has been your career path since earning your MPP?  How did the program help prepare you for what you’re doing now? 

Upon exiting the campaign world in 2015, I decided to pursue other endeavors in the world of politics, including two years at the Colorado General Assembly working for former Senate Majority Leader Dominick Moreno (Assistant House Majority Leader at the time) and earning a Master of Public Policy from the University of Denver in 2017.

In 2015, I launched a Denver-based political consulting firm, L&B Strategies LLC. My business partner and I built a successful firm and represented a broad base of clientele from both the private and public sector, conducting in-depth research on technical issues and coordinating successful candidate/issue campaigns across Colorado.

Upon graduating from DU, I spent four and a half years working for Adams County as the senior advisor of government affairs in the county managers office, working with state legislators and congressional members to advocate for critical policy issues. I was able to help with numerous important projects that moved the region forward, such as helping the county gain the 11th commercial spaceport license awarded by the FAA for Colorado Air and Space Port.

Immediately prior to joining the [Denver Mayor Mike] Johnston Administration, I oversaw the government affairs activities and strategies for the Denver Metro Chamber of Commerce and the Metro Denver EDC as the vice president of government affairs. I managed the government affairs department, overseeing all political activities of the Chamber/EDC at the local, state, and federal level.

The MPP program taught me the skills and knowledge to apply critical thinking and necessary analytical skills to matters of public policy. Public policy is rarely black and white, and policy choices impact different levels of government in unique ways - leading to ripple-effects on the public. Being able to see the "whole picture" is vital to changing outcomes.

3. What class(es) was/were particularly impactful? Do you remember some that changed the way you think about the world and/or helped you to improve your practical skills?  

Two of my favorite classes were Analytical and Critical Analysis with Professor Salucci, as well as Cost Benefit Analysis with Professor Sherbo. Learning the skills and tools needed to fully consider a piece of legislation or policy was critical to my professional development and future career. There are always costs to public policy – whether measurable or more abstract. Being able to understand both cost-benefit considerations and the logic behind policy choices help you understand why policymakers make the decision they do. In an ideal world – policy choices would be driven wholly by the heart. In reality – they are largely driven by the head (and cost).

4. Were you involved in any clubs, organizations, or graduate assistantships outside of your program? Can you tell us more about them and how they impacted your experience?  

I was working multiple jobs during my time at DU. I graduated from CU Boulder in 2013 and spent a couple years working on campaigns. But I really enjoyed my cohort of students and the outside programming the Korbel School offered.

5. What advice would you give to current MPP students? 

Find your passion and learn your “why.” Politics can be a grueling industry that is prone to a lot of cynicism. I would encourage you to spend time really thinking about why this work is important to you.

I firmly believe that public policy is the best way to improve the lives of those most in need. And while my career has ebbed and flowed around private and public policy work, it is truly an honor to be back in the public sector working for the city I was born and raised in and continue to call home.

6. Any fun facts or other information you would like to share? 

It is always important to remind ourselves that work is not life. Or as they say, “Work to live, not live to work.”

On a personal level, I got sober in 2022 and it has been the greatest reminder that it is important to live our lives and take care of ourselves. Sobriety has allowed me to connect in a more authentic way – as a partner, friend, son, employee, and human. Part of my work in life is to openly talk about addiction, recovery, and mental health. The only way we can overcome the stigma around these issues is if we talk about and normalize these conversations.

Work will always be there – but life happens really fast. As you think about working in politics, or any work for that matter, remember to be kind. There is a lot of cruelness in the world – and we could use more kind people working on public policy that benefits the greater good. I believe you can make the world a better place.

Fatema Tuj Juhra (MPP '24)

1. What made you choose the MPP program at Korbel as an international student?  

Being a student of International Relations from Bangladesh, I was always interested to understand the critical dimension of international politics. I always have been enthusiastic to find solutions and assess the impact of these solutions. After my graduation from the University of Dhaka, I have worked as a Lecturer at the Department of International Relations in Bangladesh University of Professionals (BUP). This is a newly established public university under Bangladesh armed forces. In this regard, courses like Public Policy, Governance and Development became more thought-provoking to me because those were the spheres [that], I think, Bangladesh requires more specification and expertise. Being assigned to the Bangladesh Military Academy as an instructor of officer candidates of the Bangladesh Army, gave me another incentive to specialize in public policy. I think that the process of advising future officials or policy makers should be conducted with a more specialized perspective. They are going to represent Bangladesh in UN Peacekeeping, administration, securitization and others. When returning to my home country after graduating, I will have gained more experience here and will implement what I have learned into my teaching.

From the three schools I had to choose for the Fulbright Foreign Student Program, the Josef Korbel School of International Studies was my priority. I found the MPP program of Korbel a very interesting one for its critical approach to public policy. It focuses on both domestic and international issues. In addition, the specialization courses of my own interest were the most rewarding for the degree. I am now doing my specialization in human rights and security and I am very confident that I made the right decision.

2. Which classes in the program have been the most interesting or impactful so far? What are your future career goals? How has the MPP program/Korbel helped prepare you for what you’re interested in pursuing?  

I liked the course Introduction to Public Policy from the first quarter. Though I am not a math person, I also liked the Cost-benefit Analysis course. It provides a different perspective for recommending a policy option. In the last quarter, I was in the course Gender, Security and Human rights. That was also wonderful.

Currently, I am focusing on pursuing my PhD to collect expertise on public policy and human rights in Bangladesh. I am planning to do an internship related to policy issues of human rights now. Dr. Naazneen Barma [Director of the MPP program] is very helpful, and I have been talking to her for guidance and suggestions. Korbel OCPD [Office of Career and Professional Development] is also very helpful to recommend proper suggestions to the students. I appreciate the events they organize as well as the personal coaching. After completing my higher studies, I am planning to stay in academia and continue research work.

3. Are you involved in any clubs, organizations, or other opportunities outside of your program? If so, can you tell us more about those experiences and how they have impacted your experience in the MPP program? 

Not directly in any clubs right now. First year students of MPP are working to create a student club on policy issues. We will arrange seminars, meetings with alums as well as the community, movie session and other events. I am super excited for that.

Secondly, as I am from Bangladesh, [and] we have a small group of Bangladeshi students from different programs. We talk about our classes, topics and our experience. These interdisciplinary insights help me to relate different issues with MPP. We also have friends from other Asian countries. We love to talk about the politics, culture, food and other issues which are very similar to each other.  Lastly, it is not related to the academic program, but I love to roam around different parks in Denver. I am waiting for the flowers to blossom and I plan to go to the Crystal Lake in late spring. As I love nature photography (though I am an amateur), capturing wild spring flowers of Crystal lake will be a wonderful experience.

4. Any fun facts or other information you would like to share? 

I am not very fond of quantitative analysis. I was literally afraid of the course Cost-benefit Analysis...but I am really overwhelmed to know the impact of CBA in policy making. In cases of human rights, valuing the cost or benefit is so complicated. In this cases, I have always questioned everything. Like- how can we measure the value of human life in monetary value? After doing this course, still I am not convinced but I have the idea that how it can be used in public policy. It was a great learning experience.

Also, I went to Washington DC in April to attend a Fulbright seminar. I met 120 Fulbrighters from 70 different countries and got to know their stories and passion which was really inspiring. I have never felt so global before. Moreover, I also had the chance to go to University of Denver's Kennedy Mountain Campus in the summer break. The workshop on life plans and values within the natural and scenic mountains helped me to think about my passion and future plans.

5. What do you like most about Denver? Any favorite place or activity in town you want to share? 

As I live near the university, I love the roads with restaurants and cafes. There is a 90s vibe in some of those buildings. I have mentioned the parks. Chessman and Washington parks are my go-to places for a walk. Also, the museums in Denver are really world class. I love the Art Museum. I am planning to go to Vail in this Spring as they have fun spring activities.

Kaitlyn Sims, Assistant Professor of Public Policy

1. What aspects of the Korbel School, Scrivner Institute, and MPP program made you interested in working here?  

Korbel and Scrivner truly support the kinds of research I want to do and evidence I want to produce. I'm able to think about big questions, interdisciplinary collaborations, and mixed-methods evidence, which is honestly the dream. I appreciate how the small class sizes help me get to know my students. Everyone has been so welcoming and friendly.

2. What classes do you teach?  

I teach MPP Microeconomics for Public Policy as well as Cost-Benefit Analysis, and I teach an undergraduate course on Economics for Public Policy.

3. What are your research interests/area(s) of expertise?  

I’m an economist by training, but my work is very interdisciplinary. Broadly speaking, I'm interested in how people make the best choices they can in times of stress and crisis. This includes studying survivors of domestic violence, people involved with the criminal-legal system, people who are trying to access safe and secure housing, and those facing other major public policy challenges. I work with psychologists, political scientists, sociologists, and criminologists, to name a few, to build a mosaic of evidence on these tough topics.

4. Please tell us more about one project you’re working on currently? 

I’m currently collaborating with faculty at UW-Madison on a program evaluation of the Wisconsin Domestic Violence Housing First pilot program. This program offers funding to nine domestic violence service providers in the state to implement the Housing First philosophy, which prioritizes mobile advocacy and flexible financial assistance to meet survivors where they are. We know that safe and secure housing is a major problem for Domestic Violence survivors, so Housing First can be a great way to secure housing without necessarily moving survivors out of their current home.

5. What do you see as the most interesting dimensions of the Scrivner Institute and the MPP program at Korbel? 

Scrivner takes a broad approach to the concept of being a “public policy” program – we as faculty are interested in huge, challenging topics, and the Institute offers support to start chipping away at these research agendas. Our faculty have such varied interests, but we are able to find how our work overlaps in super interesting ways. We take research from local to global and global to local, meaning that we prioritize how we can make our findings actionable and work with policymakers and practitioners to actually make change.

6. What do you like most about the students that you teach and the faculty you interact with?  

The students are incredibly empathetic and kind, and I really love how willing they are to think critically about the world around us. My colleagues are so much fun to be around and have such interesting work. I've loved getting to know them.

7. What is your favorite activity/assignment to do in your classes?  

In all of my classes, part of the last day of class is fostering a long reflection and synthesis conversation, and it's my favorite day of the quarter by far. Students are so eager to talk about what they’ve learned, how it relates to the things they are passionate about, questions they still have going forward, and more. It's so rewarding as a professor to see students fired up about how they can apply economic theory to their lives and careers.

9. What do you like most about Denver? Any favorite place or activity in town you want to share with the audience? 

Coming from Wisconsin, these winters are a dream -- I love spending time outside with my pup and going for long walks near Sloan’s Lake and in the highlands.

Clayton King (MPP '22)

1. What made you choose the MPP program at Korbel?  

   I chose the MPP program because I wanted a more technical, skills-based degree but with an international scope. The MPP’s placement within the Korbel school allowed me to do just that.

2. Can you name one class that changed the way you think about the world and one which helped you to improve a practical skill?  

   I took a class called Electoral Integrity with Professor Timothy Sisk, which included professionals from organizations like International IDEA, IFES, and the Carter Center. This class opened my eyes to how top experts addressed key elections challenges, as well as where these organizations were focusing their efforts. I really appreciated the perspectives of long-term monitoring, evaluation, and learning to understand which assumptions about election monitoring were wrong, and how we can use systematic reporting to learn from this and improve programming in the future.

3. What are you doing now? How did your program/Korbel help prepare you for what you’re doing now?  

   I recently started a new role as a Program Officer with the International Republican Institute. The most important way Korbel helped prepare me for this role is the overall exposure to the key conversations that are occurring within these international spaces, and understanding which organizations are developing materials to define and attempt to solve some of these challenges. The classes also helped fill in some of the technical gaps to best understand the statistics, surveying methods, and metrics that go into these types of reports.

4. Were you involved in any clubs, organizations, or graduate assistantships outside of your program? If so, can you tell us more about them and how they impacted your experience?  

   I supported the Social Movement Support Lab through the law school over the interim summer. During this program, I volunteered with law students to analyze city and county budgets for clients who were focused on improving community-focused funding, holding police departments accountable, and ending the school-to-prison pipeline. This was an incredible experience for seeing how widely useful and applicable the skills you receive from an MPP degree can be.

5. What was your internship experience like? What about your policy memo?  

   I had multiple internships during my time at DU, but the most informative was my time with the National Endowment for Democracy. I participated in the Korbel@DC program, where I spent the fall semester of my second year in Washington, DC. I took classes at Syracuse’s Maxwell School at night, and during the day I helped with the Sharp Power Portal. The Portal is a research tool for analyzing foreign use of soft power for malign purposes, such as purchasing soccer teams for “reputation laundering” or purchasing stock in Hollywood production companies to prevent films from straying from the party line. The experience and networking within the organization was incredibly helpful for finding a position after graduation.

   My policy memo focused on assessing U.S. foreign democracy support tools to see which may be of use in a domestic setting. I amalgamated findings from reports like Freedom House’s Freedom in the World Report, International IDEA’s Global State of Democracy, etc. as well as OAS and OSCE elections monitoring reports to understand the challenges to U.S. democracy, and then compared these to the types of tools that the U.S. uses within the foreign policy sphere to combat these same challenges. This scope was more than recommended, but the background research was eye-opening for understanding the structures of U.S. democracy promotion. I, of course, did not find all the answers, but I have now entered this industry to continue learning lessons that I hope I can use when I pivot back to the domestic sphere later in my career.

6. You also worked with Scrivner Institute on the Denver Democracy Summit as a student employee. Can you share more about this experience?

   While supporting the Denver Democracy Summit I supported building briefing materials for the moderators. I performed background research on the panelists, and used this to draft questions for the moderators that would intentionally relate to multiple panelists and create conversation among common themes. It was a great experience for understanding how programs like the DDS are developed, as well as understanding how much background work goes into making sure these conversations are fruitful for participants and viewers.

7. What advice would you give to current MPP students? 

   Enjoy building bonds within the MPP cohort and with the other programs as well. The MPP program is unique in that students enter with a wide variety of interests and experiences. Some MPP students tend to take classes that overlap heavily with other degree programs at Korbel, which gave students the opportunity to operate within multiple spheres and better connect across more of the school.

8. Any fun facts or other information you would like to share? 

   Many Korbel alumni move to Washington, DC after graduation. I highly recommend participating in the Korbel@DC program if you are interested in working in DC, and networking with the alumni during the program. It is a small city, and you might just wind up living down the street from some of your friends from your time at DU!

The Scrivner Institute has an incredible community of public policy faculty, students, alumni, and staff. We spoke with several members of our community to learn more about their experience in the public policy field and here at Scrivner and Korbel.

Dr. Ajenai Clemmons
Assistant Professor of Public Policy

1. What made you choose to take a faculty position affiliated with the Scrivner Institute and the MPP program? 

Being part of the Scrivner Institute and the MPP Program is so exciting. I love public policy to my core and am an unapologetic policy nerd. At Scrivner, I’m able to help students understand how public policy is made and prepare them to lead public policymaking processes. Scrivner allows me to be immersed in an interdisciplinary culture that excels in teaching local and state policy while valuing their connection to federal policy and global trends. I graduated from the MPP program here at DU and used my degree every day in my work with lawmakers and lobbyists in Washington, D.C. In my role as a professor, I look forward to building on the rich preparation I received at DU that equipped me to make tough decisions and become a sought-after advisor to legislators across the country.

2. What classes do you teach? 

I teach undergraduates and graduate students on the politics of the policymaking process. Here, students not only learn about the policymaking process but the elements of politics that shape and interact with policy. I will also teach courses on the criminal justice system, covering topics such as state violence, over-policing, mass incarceration, and immigration policy. All of my courses will center structural inequality and stratification, analyzing the ways in which groups are or can be treated differently in systematic ways that render cumulative advantage or disadvantage. Also, my courses will include an intersectional approach that compares and contrasts experiences by class, race and ethnicity, and gender. Finally, I will teach qualitative methods with an emphasis on in-depth interviewing. My courses are designed to help students recognize injustice and identify appropriate policy tools to carry out justice-based interventions.

3. What are your research interests/area(s) of expertise? 

I am focused on police reform as well as the police-community relationship, and the most important factors that help or harm it. I study policing in democratic contexts, examining what marginalized groups experiencing disproportionate civilian crime and police misconduct need to be safe and feel safe. My current work examines young men’s experiences and policy preferences, comparing Black men in the U.S. to Muslim men of Bangladeshi descent in the U.K. My future projects will expand to women as well as members of economically distressed Latinx, Indigenous, Asian, and White communities in urban and rural contexts. Beyond the U.S., I will continue to conduct research centering marginalized groups, such as Muslim and Roma communities in Europe, to formulate policy recommendations for reform.

 4. What do you see as the most interesting dimensions of the Scrivner Institute and the MPP program?

Well, there’s certainly an embarrassment of riches here! I’m proud to be at a place where brilliant and caring people tackle real-world, complex problems head-on. Scrivner is about leading research that asks necessary questions and answers the call to confront society’s greatest challenges. We prepare future analysts and executives, legislators and bureaucrats, to form sound policy judgments. Scrivner is also uniquely positioned as a convener of scholars, government actors, grassroots organizations, civil society, and the private sector to exchange ideas. We desire to get at the root cause of issues to solve them, not distract ourselves with symptoms. We aim to co-create solutions with those most affected by policy violence—not ignore, not victim-blame, and not take over on their behalf.

5. Outside of class, what do you like to do for fun? 

Karaoke. Seriously, the pandemic has ripped away my favorite hobby! On the flip side, though, I have been able to dramatically increase my nature walks and hikes, and take full advantage of this historically mild Colorado fall. My spouse and I have explored lots of mountainous parks and reservoirs. Also, our precocious five-year old nephew cracks us up, and we try to spend as much quality time with him (and the rest of our family and friends) as we can. Going to the movie theater and getting massages are also wonderful treats I look forward to! I don’t really go to church for the purpose of fun, but it’s always fulfilling.

6. Any fun facts or other information you would like to share?

A bit of a random fact is that I was the first woman in the state of Colorado to win a Golden Gloves boxing title when I was 18 years old, though my primary sports growing up were volleyball and track and field. I am from Colorado but have lived in Des Moines, Iowa; Washington, D.C.; and Durham, North Carolina (meaning I’ve lived in the Midwest, on the East Coast, and in the South). I also studied abroad in Central and South America (Xela, Guatemala and Santiago, Chile); taught English in Caracas, Venezuela; and lived in East London for six months during my doctoral studies. I’ve been so fortunate to travel to almost every state and territory in the U.S., the Caribbean, throughout Latin America, Southern Africa, and Europe. I can’t wait to travel more and visit my spouse’s homeland of Nigeria.

 

Tash Berwick
MPP, '22
Political Director, New Era Colorado

1. What made you choose the MPP program at DU?

I chose the MPP program at DU because of the practicum requirement. In my experience, you don’t really know what you are doing until you’ve gotten your hands dirty in the field. I’ve taken a lot of really great theory classes at DU and it has been interesting to see how they are applied (or not) working in a political environment with competing interests, short timelines and frankly - lots of emotion! Being able to explore theories and practice at the same time is a great gift.

2. What has been the most interesting class you’ve taken during the program?

Tough question. I am going to choose two:

One, I did an independent study on applying abolitionist theory to interpersonal violence policy in Colorado. The study made me reconcile with my own beliefs around policy making, the role of the state, community building and applied empathy.

Two, The Policy Lab! I learned SO MUCH about fiscal policy and honestly, I dig it. It made me realize that everything starts with the budget and our culture defines how it is spent rather than obvious (to me) need. I think fiscal policy is going to be super trendy as more progressive politicians build power.

3. What are your future career goals? How has the MPP program/Korbel helped prepare you for what you’re interested in pursuing?

I am looking forward to building powerful coalitions that will hold politicians accountable, end TABOR, secure access to safe abortions and ensure that Black, Latinx and Indigenous people are in positions of power in municipal and state government as the Political Director at New Era Colorado. The MPP gave me the tools to analyze the complex political climate in Colorado, and identify strategies to overcome those barriers. I am excited to use them in my new job!

4. Are you involved in any clubs, organizations, or jobs outside of your program? If so, what are you involved in?

I am currently working with Earthjustice and Denver City Councilwoman Candi CdeBaca to craft a community based, equity informed toxic carcinogen policy at the municipal level. I’m also working with GSSW PhD Student Rebecca Zimmerman (and a new Emerge Program participant!!) on coding, analyzing, writing and recommending IPV policies that are informed by survivor experiences.

5. Outside of class, what do you like to do for fun?

I can’t decide if it is fun or not but my husband and I are training for a half-marathon. I’ve never done anything like it before so we will see how it goes!

6. Any fun facts or other information you would like to share?

I was terrified to get into policy and politics. I felt like I had no idea what I was doing, who to talk to, what the language and codes were and what I had to offer.  I admitted my fears to Ean Tafoya one day and he told me, “just be yourself. Own it. Say to the world this is me and this is what I think.” His advice meant a lot to me because he is such a force in the community and was honored that he thought I had something to offer. Every MPP major needs Ean’s advice. You’ve got this.
Daniel Wilkins
MPP '23
Environmental Defense Fund Climate Corps Fellow

1. What made you choose the MPP program at DU?

I chose the MPP program at Korbel for several reasons. First, I've lived in CO for 25 years, and so Korbel has always been on my radar. Additionally, Josef Korbel was a Czech diplomat, and having been born in the Czech Republic and still maintaining ties to family there, I always wanted to secretly attend Korbel so I can contribute to the history of the school in my own unique way. But what really drew me in was the freedom of the program. You're able to tailor your degree, policy emphasis, and even capstone project all based on whatever you're passionate about, and I think that's a super unique and holistic approach to a traditional MPP degree that may be more rigid in other schools.

2. What has been the most interesting class you’ve taken during the program?

I'd have to say PPOL 4500: "Cost-Benefit Analysis for Public Policy". While it's been the most mentally demanding course in this program so far, it's also the most rewarding for me. Each class I can see just how much data, budgets, and financial considerations go into the creation of even the most basic of policies; it's getting into the weeds of policy-making.

3. What are your future career goals? How has the MPP program/Korbel helped prepare you for what you’re interested in pursuing?

I hope to make the most of my dual citizenship to the Czech Republic by moving to Europe, and work in either the public or private sector helping to advance the decarbonization of transportation in the EU. I hope to make it back to the United States and Colorado in the future, bringing lessons and experience learned across the Atlantic back to advance decarbonization here as well.

4. Are you involved in any clubs, organizations, job outside of your program? If so, what are you involved in?

I'm currently also a Research Assistant at the Pardee Center for International Futures, serving on the Literature Review team.

5. Outside of class, what do you like to do for fun?

I've been a (very amateur) photographer for a little over 11 years now, and I love to take my camera on adventures, be it a mile away or a thousand. It helps to clear my mind and allows me to get creative with my surroundings. In the warmer months, I LOVE to get outdoors and do anything in nature, from camping to hiking and even rock climbing.

6. Any fun facts or other information you would like to share?

I'm excited to say I was selected to be an EDF Climate Corps Fellow for Summer 2022! I'll be spending the coming months working with the nonprofit Sustainable Jersey to advise municipalities and school districts within New Jersey on how to reduce energy use, increase efficiencies, and make a business case for sustainability.

 

Kelsie George
MPP '19
Policy Analyst, National Conference of State Legislatures

1. What made you choose the MPP program at DU?

Once I decided to pursue my Master of Public Policy degree, I narrowed my choices down to a handful -- some in Boston where I was living at the time, some in D.C. and Korbel. I ultimately chose DU for the faculty I already knew here from my previous job -- Dr. Jennifer Greenfield (Social Work) and Dr. Cecilia Orphan (Higher Education). While neither were based in Korbel, I knew I would be able to take classes outside the program and build my degree to meet my professional goals.

2. What were the most interesting classes you took during your program?

I took a class over December term where we met with people across Denver -- city planners, developers, reporters, former and current city council members, the mayor's office and more. It provided a head-first dive into the City and County of Denver and (re)ignited my passion for local government.

3. What are you doing now? How did your program/Korbel help prepare you for what you’re doing now?

I am a policy analyst within the health program at the National Conference of State Legislatures. I provide state legislators and legislative staff with research and state policy examples on health policy topics--like supportive housing, emergency medical services, health workforce and social determinants of health. I track legislation in several of NCSL's databases and write publications on health policy trends. I collaborate with NCSL staff to host events for our members, including NCSL's upcoming Legislative Summit.

I interned with NCSL's health program for a year before starting full-time on the same team. Through my internship, I became curious about health workforce topics and tailored my final policy memo to dive deeper. I built a great relationship with my supervisor at NCSL, Sydne, who served on my memo review committee and is now one of my colleagues.

My job requires many of the skills I learned through Korbel's MPP program, including researching and summarizing legislation, identifying and analyzing policy trends over time, understanding regulatory policy and more.

4. Were you involved in any clubs, organizations, jobs outside of your program? If so, what were you involved in?

I held several jobs during my time at Korbel with Denver Public Library (grant writing), Colorado Preservation Inc. (conference planning), the Alliance for Research on Regional Colleges (policy research) and the National Conference of State Legislatures, where I currently work. Each experience provided me with skills for the job I'm currently in, and helped me identify the type of position, team and organization I would thrive in.

5. What advice would you give to current MPP students?

Get to know your faculty! I wouldn't have made it through my MPP program without the incredible support, advocacy and mentoring from faculty, both within ) and outside of Korbel. They served as incredible role models of what it looks like to do brilliant and insightful research, but also to get it into the hands of decision-makers and individuals who are impacted most by policy decisions. I still stay in contact with several faculty today--which led to my white paper being published with the Alliance for Research on Regional Colleges in 2021 and returning to Korbel for Career Conversations this year!

6. Outside of work, what do you like to do for fun?

All of my free time is spent with my dog, Bella. We like to go for long walks exploring all of Denver and finding new hikes around the state. I recently purchased a paddle board, so we will be spending as much time as possible on the water this summer.